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Saturday, August 16, 2014

AR Shorty


There are reports about the fascination of shorty uppers on ARs.  The "sniper" atop the St. Louis vehicle has a scope nearly as along as the barrel of his "Sniper" rifle.

I have read reports that the shorty barrels, ranging from 7.5 - 11.5", have performance problems, as well as distinct noise problems, but agencies are buying them up.  Without giving away any SBR issues, do any of you have insights to the shorty barrel syndrome sweeping the "elite" units?

What is your preferred all-around upper length for your AR?  Is it the 14.5 with the flash attachment that satisfies ATF?  Is it the 16, 18, 20?  I know intended use is a factor - assume suburban, urban, and occasionally defending a farmer.  Is the shorty worth the consideration, especially if a suppressor or functionality issues can be ensured?

Mosby can hit kill-shots to 600 yards with his 14.5 (I think he shoots a 14.5 and attachment - not certain) - a feat many could not match without a longer barrel.

Does the shorty have its place?

K

14 comments:

  1. At 600 yards a 55 grain .22 bullet from ANY 5.56 rifle has no more retained energy than a .22LR.--Hundreds of US Army and USMC after action reports show it to be utterly ineffective at ranges over 300 meters.--- You lose 200FPS for ever inch you cut back a 20 inch AR. The 5.56 X 45 kills by fragmentation and cavitation , the bullet will do nether at any velocity below 2500 to 2700FPS. That means that from a 20 inch AR the maximum range for a one shot kill is 225 yards. From a 16 inch that MAX is 172 yards . from a 14.5 that range drops to 80 yards. From a 10.5 its 35 yards. This is a TACTICOOL fad.-- IMO meant to make its worshipers look like "hard core SF types. I have no Idea who "mosby" is other than the BS posted on the Internet , but he knows less than squat about bullets ammunition or ballistics. NO BODY has EVER "dropped a man at 600 yards" with a 5.56 from a 14.5 inch tube . You MIGHT if you are a Carlos Hathcock class NM shooter , hit the guy at that range , but nothing short of a head (brain) shot will have any more effect than a .22 LR at the same range. AR pistols are "in the room" point blank choppers that JAM- A LOT. Cops love 'em for the same reason they like black ninja/Nazi uniforms , they think it makes them look all "operator" . The original concept for an "assault rifle" was to have a weapon that was smaller /lighter and used smaller/ lighter ammo at short(400 yards or less) ranges. That is all they are and all they ever were. Anyone telling you that a 5.56 is a "long range battle rifle" is 100% full of shit. It will make holes in paper at 500-600 yards but not much else.-- The 5.56x45 was developed for the 20 inch barrel and really doesn't work well with a short tube , like everything else the "shorty" fad has "F"ed up over the last 40 years.

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    1. Thanks for that. I'm no expert, but it makes great sense. I never handled an AR until a few weeks ago. I can see why they're so popular--really easy and a lot of fun--but for fun I can throw darts.

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  2. My preferred barrel is twenty inch, medium to heavy weight profile.

    Matt

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  3. Kill shot at 600 with a short ar? Id pay to see that happen!

    Short ars are next to worthless.

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  4. I use a 16 inch barreled AR for...fun and paper punching. Real work in my opinion, calls for 7.62 goodness. Reaching out and touchng bad folks for many years.

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  5. Quote number one,"At 600 yards a 55 grain .22 bullet from ANY 5.56 rifle has no more retained energy than a .22LR.--Hundreds of US Army and USMC after action reports show it to be utterly ineffective at ranges over 300 meters." Ignorance much? We use a 62gr projectile out of a 1-7 twist 14.5" barrel
    Second quote, " You lose 200FPS for ever inch you cut back a 20 inch AR. The 5.56 X 45 kills by fragmentation and cavitation , the bullet will do nether at any velocity below 2500 to 2700FPS." But at that velocity, it will yaw (tumble) A LOT, when it hits a body.
    Quote three, "That means that from a 20 inch AR the maximum range for a one shot kill is 225 yards. From a 16 inch that MAX is 172 yards . from a 14.5 that range drops to 80 yards. From a 10.5 its 35 yards." I guess the "Bad Guys" didn't get the memo...maybe their PT scores weren't high enough?
    Quote four, " I have no Idea who "mosby" is other than the BS posted on the Internet , but he knows less than squat about bullets ammunition or ballistics. NO BODY has EVER "dropped a man at 600 yards" with a 5.56 from a 14.5 inch tube." Since your original premise (55gr bullets) shows your lack of knowledge concerning the AAR's you cited, I wouldn't say anything about what you think is someone else's ballistic ignorance. The fact that you said "NOBODY has EVER......." shows you're a ballistic reality retard.
    Fifth quote, "AR pistols are "in the room" point blank choppers that JAM- A LOT" Although I agree shart AR's need to be tuned more than a full size AR, once again you show your lack of experience and knowledge of this specific platform. Airsoft much?
    Quote six, "Anyone telling you that a 5.56 is a "long range battle rifle" is 100% full of shit. It will make holes in paper at 500-600 yards but not much else." First, it's not a battle rifle, it's an assault rifle. Second, DMR's (look it up, expert) in the AR platform are usually 18-20" barrels with a 1-7" or 1-8" twist, shooting 75-77 gr OTM (look it up, expert), bullets, and will take you're fun filled facts of firearms folly (F5) and blow them out of your airsoft AR barrel.
    I'm not a big 5.56mm/AR fan (those who read my blog know what I usually carry), but with that being said, they're very ergonomic, and accurate, and if used within the limitations of the cartridge/weapon combo, have and will do fine for most tactical applications. I have and would carry it in combat if necessary, if the logistical necessity was there. BTW, So you're sayin' popping (and dimpling) steel offhand at 200 mtrs didn't happen, right, since it didn't fall within the parameters of your 5.56mm kill matrix?
    JCD,
    American by BIRTH, Infidel by CHOICE

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  6. Oh yeah, the 200 mtrs thing was with and 8.5" barreled AR....just sayin'.

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    1. You win for giving me the first grin of the day...

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  7. Truth be told; short barreled guns work very well. there light and easy to handle. And in spite of some folks opinions. still hit hard enough to get the job done. Facts show that you lose about 55fps per in of barrel. My hodgdon manual shows a max load of blc-2 from a 24" tube at 3300fps. that same load in the pistol data, from a 15" tube shows 2800fps. y'all can do the math. A 2800fps load from a 55gr. bullet still shows 175psi at 600yrds..Not optimal by any standard. Until one thinks about someone putting a .25 dia. pointed rod up against ones temple; and giving it a 175 lbs. blow.
    Go google search a 300yrd .22lr test to find out that a guy put a Remington thunderbolt,(of all loads), through a turkey, and cloth all duct-taped together.
    I'm not sure about this; but I believe the lowest psi threshold for the military is 59 psi.
    Anyway; just my .02 on the matter. MTHead

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  8. Like the Uzi or a sawed-off pistol grip shotgun, the AR SBR or AR pistol is a limited use, specialized tool. Great for throwing lots of lead after revealing it underneath a full-length raincoat. Not so great for distance defense.

    (disclaimer: I own an AR pistol, but I do not own a full-length raincoat!)

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  9. Are the manufacturers still pig-tailing the gas tubes for better reliability?

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  10. Mine was built for me by the good folks at Tactical Machining in Florida.
    I told them I wanted an AR pistol, and they helped me find the right combination of barrel length (10.5 inch) gas port, gas tube, and even recommended the specific buffer weight.

    I've had it for over two years, and have fired hundreds of rounds (both commercial and re-loads) and not a single FtF, FtE, or misfire to date.

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  11. I've found 10.5" to be the best trade off for size to capability ratio. Plenty short, but still plenty of punch for most applications.

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